Comment by someotherperson

An ethno-nationalist state becoming more secular and less extremist? I'm intrigued. Do you believe that the settlements would stop and that Palestinians would be given Israeli citizenship? Would the Palestinians forced out of Israel be allowed to return in this case?

Or is this secular, less extremist, conflict-free Israel predicated on Israel continuing to be majority Jewish and with a Jewish government?

Edit for your edit: no, nothing to do with Jews. South + North Korea, Taiwan, Ukraine, Singapore, the baltic countries (Estonia etc). Various Arab countries too. In Israel's case the population are made of diaspora which multiplies the effect.

yoavm 3 days ago

[flagged]

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someotherperson 3 days ago

So in this hypothetical scenario where everything is flowers and sunshine, the secular, peaceful Israel is still an ethnostate with a two-state outcome that keeps its ethnic cleansing-attained Jewish majority.
It’s wild to me that this is what you consider the best case scenario in a situation where Israel is experiencing complete peace. And then ending it with an unintentional “nur für Deutsche” reference. The Sweden reference is especially apt, given that’s what the Swedish Antisemitic Union also used as a slogan[0]
> but most of the places Palestinians left during the war they started on Israel 1947
You really can’t help yourself huh.
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Antisemitic_Union

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- yoavm 3 days ago
  
  I never said "only for" - you're putting words in my mouth. I said that the idea that Israel will still have a Jewish majority isn't crazy, and can be seen in pretty much any other country in the world, yet it's "wild" to you only when it's happening in Israel.
  Unfortunately recent history showed that it's quite an essential need for protecting Jews from genocide. If you have a better idea for how we can be sure that our government will not try to kill us because we're Jewish, I'm sure many Jews would love to hear it.
  
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  someotherperson 2 days ago
  
  Well I'm glad we've gone full circle here. I started off with "the entire notion of Israel as a concept is predicated on it being under constant existential threats" and you seem to also accept that now.
  If conflicts were to stop, so would Israel. So Israel has a perverse incentive to keep the conflicts going -- largely explaining why Israel can't stop bombing its neighbours or trying to lobby others to bomb them. And why things like settlements won't ever stop.
  
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  yoavm 2 days ago
  
  That's skewed logic. The fact that Israel was originally created because Jews needed a safe haven doesn't mean that when they won't need it anymore it will disappear.
  Also, from Israel's declaration of independence: "we extend our hand to all neighboring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighborliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East."
  Kinda odd for someone with incentive to keep the war going to say that, not to mention to sign peace agreements with the two neighbors it is sharing the longest borders with, Egypt and Jordan.
  
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