Comment by doctorpangloss

Comment by doctorpangloss 3 days ago

34 replies

Do you need a tool to tell you that the cloud is more expensive?

Do you need a tool to tell you that your company underpays or is bad at recruiting? Or maybe that you do something boring that people don't want to work for?

IMO Keda is the more important product in this space, because it translates business requirements like max queue wait time into compute resources.

If you are operating in a way where small cost differences decide if you are break even if you have already failed, no amount of "FinOps" will stop your trend from going to zero. It is delaying the inevitable.

JackSlateur 3 days ago

I've built many projects where "the cloud" is less expensive than the alternatives

The last big one: replacing a backbone country-wide network in France with AWS

It is far less expensive due to the low bandwidth requirements (and also the ability to go full managed services)

  • doctorpangloss 3 days ago

    What stops AWS from "increasing the price" until it is very close to what you were paying before, if not more?

    • akira2501 3 days ago

      Competition?

      I've never had AWS "increase the price." Is there some reason to suspect this is a thing to actually worry about?

      • klingoff 3 days ago

        Price is supposed to cut in half every 3-4 years, if it isn't it is largely because cloud vendors can't bear to take less and hope there really is that much more volume of half as valuable computing to do.

        The things they sell as an average CPU performance, etc are basically the average when their cloud began.

      • doctorpangloss 3 days ago

        New public IP charges and Kubernetes base pricing both doubled my bill.

        Spot pricing is kind of a black box, and it also makes no sense.

    • JackSlateur 3 days ago

      Nothing, and they do that regurarly

      What stops dark fibers or hardware providers from "increasing the price" ? Nothing, and they do that too

      • doctorpangloss 3 days ago

        So you're proving my point. The tool cannot tell you the single most important factor in pricing.

    • unethical_ban 3 days ago

      You moved the goalpost from "cloud is definitely more expensive" to "well it isn't but maybe it will be for you someday" and alluding to vendor lock-in.

      Vendor lock-in is a concern with cloud platforms but doesn't relate to the app in the submission.

      • JackSlateur 3 days ago

        Haa, yes, the scary "vendor lock-in" !

        I challenge you : give me a single product that cannot be moved away, given some (cost or time).

        At the same time, I again challenge you : give me a single product that you can move between providers with no cost nor time.

        To that last one, you can actually find stuff. For instance, you could setup your nginx in instances, without any kind of interactions with the hosting provider. In which case, you limit yourself with what everybody can do, leaving all opportunities to only use the base minimal.

        But wait .. are you not locked-in with nginx (or to use a better example: with redis) ?

        Vendor lock-in is a scam to increase your bills. Because, in itself, everything is vendor locking. And it does not matter. Think your architecture, design your code, and act when necessary.

      • doctorpangloss 3 days ago

        It is always more expensive. I haven’t moved any goalposts. What I am trying to show is that you don’t need a tool - indeed you don’t need to look at a single price of anything - to know why. It can be both more expensive and a better value though! If you can’t recruit people or what you do is boring or if you want to operate a business that loses money in the long run: those are some common reasons it can look cheaper when it’s not.

surfingdino 3 days ago

> Do you need a tool to tell you that the cloud is more expensive?

Yes. If you want to make an argument for change in a business environment you need numbers.

orochimaaru 3 days ago

It’s the wrong question usually. The right question is how many more features and what revenue growth would you get by using cloud? How many less people would you need to employ? Would you need to manage facilities - worry about hardware, power, diesel generators, etc.?

Cloud is more expensive. But you’re not stuck with capacity and sysadmin tickets.

outworlder 3 days ago

> Do you need a tool to tell you that the cloud is more expensive?

More expensive than what? Doing your own?

That depends on what you are doing. Often, the cloud is cheaper if you factor in the human cost. I've seen many spreadsheets that just quote the hardware costs.

  • Dalewyn 3 days ago

    Not only is it potentially cheaper, it can be better than rolling your own stuff in-house.

    Kadokawa can tell you all about how their in-house shit (literally, Japanese suck at computers) got pwned while the stuff they had in the cloud (I hate the term, but it is what it is) were unscathed.

    Keeping in-house has its benefits, but the costs are also steep.

empath75 3 days ago

This tool makes it relatively easy to find cost savings, and also to do chargebacks. Most kubernetes clusters waste tons of compute for no reason at all.

athorax 3 days ago

One of the main value adds of these tools is to help identify and categorize workloads into OpEx and CapEx buckets

  • doctorpangloss 3 days ago

    Unless you are currently in possession of a bunch of latest generation NVIDIA DGX, which many people are, 99% of your workloads are OpEx.

    They might be CapEx in some imaginary, nonactionable accounting sense. Like maybe you are mislabeling exclusive rights to dig holes in some neighborhoods as telecommunications equipment capital expenditures. Just pay an accountant to make up stories for you. You don't need the tool.