Comment by Rinzler89

Comment by Rinzler89 3 days ago

But you're not forced to work for a company that wants you in the office, you're free to seek employment elsewhere that matches your remote requirements similar how a company isn't forced to hire remote workers only. You are both free to choose the best options that fit your demands if you can find them.

Jobs and employers aren't for life. If you uprooted and reorganize your whole life based on the circumstances of a once in a lifetime global pandemic expecting things to stay like that forever, you've done goofed.

kstrauser 3 days ago

That’s not a good take. Compare/contrast: “but you’re not forced to work for a company that wants you to work in hazardous conditions without safety gear”. That’s far different from RTO, but the point is that there’s a huge power imbalance here and it’s not as simple as saying “don’t work there if you’re not happy with […]”.

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Rinzler89 3 days ago

IMHO, yours is not a good take. I get it, I also like to WFH if I can instead of commuting, but working from the office is not the same as working with hazardous substances both legally and as a apples to apples take.
Working in hazardous environments is outlawed (unless proper care is taken), working from the office is not outlawed. If you want working from the office to be outlawed as a health hazard you'll have to convince the government to do that as part of OHSA and labor laws but good luck getting any workers' sympathy that commuting to work in your cushy air conditioned office is not to your taste from the likes of those doing landscaping or roofing.
Otherwise we can stretch the definition endlessly to working with Windows, Agile, Scrum, Teams and Jira is a health hazard and should be also outlawed because I just don't like them, but me not liking something is not enough to make it outlawed.

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- kstrauser 3 days ago
  
  Yep, those are indeed not the same thing, and that’s why I said they’re not the same thing. The point was that “if you don’t like it, leave” is a terrible reply to any complaint about a working environment. Especially when things like insurance are bizarrely tied to employment, a huge portion of people can’t just leave.
  
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  Rinzler89 3 days ago
  
  >“if you don’t like it, leave” is a terrible reply to any complaint about a working environment.
  Why is it a terrible reply? What should you do if you don't like your job? What's your point here?
  Most people on the planet do jobs they don't like, welcome to reality. Otherwise we'd all be racecar drivers, twitch streamers, musicians and painters and get paid for our hobbies, but that's not how it works for most people.
  We do a job not because we always like it or like everything about it, we do it to pay for food, shelter and if money allows, to afford hobbies and leisure that make life nice. Venting on the internet won't improve societal issues or issues you have at your job, it's still up to you to change your situation to what fits you because nobody will do it for you.
  
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  consteval 3 days ago
  
  > because nobody will do it for you
  That's not true - you just talked about OSHA. What did they do before that? They did what you advocate - they left, or maybe lost a hand or two. Then we got this codified and boom! Now somebody else does it for you (thank god).
  It's not just about like/dislike. There are real impacts. Thousands of tons of CO2, lives lost in car accidents, countless human lifespans wasted on a commute. These are real impact that you, yes YOU, will face head on.
  
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Tade0 3 days ago

Friendly reminder that remote work in IT was a thing way before the pandemic. I for one started working from home full time in 2015.

Also your approach seems to be to just accept whatever employers throw at you. Have you considered that they might be colluding (in a sense) to deprive you of options?

I would like to know a rational reason why I should spend so much of my day travelling.

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Rinzler89 3 days ago

>Also your approach seems to be to just accept whatever employers throw at you.
Where do you see me saying such a thing?
>I would like to know a rational reason why I should spend so much of my day travelling.
Companies say it's for "better collaboration". You would do it if you had no other options if every potential employer would require you to be on site depriving you of remote options, but because the market is in your favor giving you options, it's difficult for you to empathize with the other situation.

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- Tade0 3 days ago
  
  > Where do you see me saying such a thing?
  Your solution appears to be "choose a different employer" without any hint of "demand more from the current employer".
  > You would do it if you had no other options if every potential employer would require you to be on site depriving you of remote options, but because the market is in your favor giving you options, it's difficult for you to empathize with the other situation.
  You assume something that's not the case. I am of the opinion that everyone who can, should have this option regardless of the market situation and I think it's terrible people are forced to commute. It's like paid leave or health insurance - an achievement in workers' rights.
  
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  Rinzler89 3 days ago
  
  >Your solution appears to be "choose a different employer" without any hint of "demand more from the current employer".
  That's only what you implied, not what I said. If simply demanding stuff from your current employer would just work then there wouldn't be so many unhappy workers everywhere. But that's not it works in the real world. The only language employers understand is the "F you, I quit" part.
  >I am of the opinion that everyone who can, should have this option regardless of the market situation
  That's nice but how do you propose that to happen? Did you see any workers rioting on the streets to have remote work as a guaranteed labor right? No? Then you can forget about it.
  All rights and perk that labor currently has, like the 8h workday, free healthcare, paid vacation days, paid sick leave, have been won only through blood and conflict. It's not like your government is ever gonna hold a referendum and ask workers how many paid vacation days do you want to have and everyone gets to choose. If you want change you need to fight for it, physically with violent force, otherwise you'll be at the mercy of the "free market" which may or may not be in your favor depending how the wind blows. Perks aren't just gonna fall out of the sky for the working class, ever. The covid years were a fluke.
  
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