t1234s 2 days ago

What happens if you have FSD turned off and like to drive fast on public roads. Will they see this telemetry and raise your rates?

  • jerlam 2 days ago

    It seems the answer is yes. From their web site:

    > Fair prices, based on how you drive [...] Get a discount, and earn a lower premium as you drive better.

    • t1234s 2 days ago

      Bummer.. its super fun to floor them off the line.

      • t1234s 2 days ago

        Someone with a Plaid will need to test this out to see how high they can make their Lemonade premium.

      • giobox 2 days ago

        This (instant torque) is exciting for about the first week of electric car ownership, it gets old very fast. I have far more fun driving my much slower gas-engined cars.

aanet 2 days ago

It would be interesting to see if Lemonade requires a Driver Monitoring System (DMS) to see if the driver/operator is actually paying attention (or, like sleeping / watching Netflix / whatever) while at the driver's seat.

Anybody know??

Tesla FSD is still a supervised system (= ADAS), afaik.

  • rogerrogerr a day ago

    FSD won’t stay engaged for very long if you’re not paying attention. It’s getting pretty smart about how much attention it wants you to pay in different situations, but there are no situations where it will let you just sleep.

FrankWilhoit 2 days ago

One's first thought is that they ought to be running away from underwriting this as fast as they can go. But then one realizes that it is all profit -- they need never pay a claim, because in accidents involving autonomous vehicles, it will never be possible to establish fault; and then one sees that the primary purpose of most automations is to obscure responsibility.

  • deelayman 2 days ago

    I think there's a narrow unregulated space where this could be true. I'm exercising my creativity trying to imagine it - where automations are built with the outcome of obscured responsibility in mind. And I could understand profit as a possible driving factor for that outcome.

    As an extreme end of a spectrum example, there's been worry and debate for decades over automating military capabilities to the point where it becomes "push button to win war". There used to be, and hopefully still is, lots of restraint towards heading in that direction - in recognition of the need for ethics validation in automated judgements. The topic comes up now and then around Tesla's, and impossible decisions that FSD will have to make.

    So at a certain point, and it may be right around the point of serious physical harm, the design decision to have or not have human-in-the-middle accountability seems to run into ethical constraints. In reality it's the ruthless bottom line focused corps - that don't seem to be the norm, but may have an outsized impact - that actually push up against ethical constraints. But even then, I would be wary as an executive documenting a decision to disregard potential harms at one of them shops. That line is being tested, but it's still there.

    In my actual experience with automations, they've always been derived from laziness / reducing effort for everyone, or "because we can", and sometimes a need to reduce human error.

  • nradov 2 days ago

    You're not making any sense. In terms of civil liability, fault is attached to the vehicle regardless of what autonomous systems might have been in use at the time of a collision.

    • SoftTalker 2 days ago

      Or even who was driving it, in the case of ordinary cars.

  • tehwebguy 2 days ago

    One might imagine that lower courts won’t determine fault, one would be wrong.

  • jgbuddy 2 days ago

    > and then one sees that the primary purpose of most automations is to obscure responsibility.

    Are you saying that the investments in FSD by tesla have been with the goal of letting drivers get a way with accidents? The law is black and white

    • FrankWilhoit 2 days ago

      What is the "driver"? Who wrote which line of the software? Who tested it? Who approved its deployment? The rest is lawyers.

jsight a day ago

You know what's weird? This is a company that has been using the fleet api for quite a while now to monitor non-professional drivers using FSD on their daily commute, often while distracted doing other things. The latest versions even allow some phone usage.

And yet people are skeptical. I mean, they should be skeptical, given that the company is using this for marketing purposes. It doesn't make sense to just believe them.

But it is strange to see this healthy skepticism juxtaposed with the many unskeptical comments attached to recent Electrek articles with outlandish claims.

justapassenger 2 days ago

I'm 200% sure it's subsidized by Tesla and they have a deal that any losses they'd get Tesla is going to pay Lemonade for them.

dmitrygr 2 days ago

Fleet API gives location data, no? I bet this discount will be paid for by this location data

socalgal2 a day ago

This is the biggest scam I can think of. You are not driving the car. If it crashes while its "self driving" the company that made the self driving system should be at fault. The End!

Gees! Come on!

PS: I'm not talking about Tesla's fake FSD.

sergiotapia a day ago

I wish this was available in Miami! I would switch in a heartbeat.

kittikitti 2 days ago

I have Lemonade for my home insurance. It's been reliable for several years and the customer service is great. I don't have a self-driving car but I wouldn't hesitate to sign up. Their rates are very affordable.

  • ajcp 2 days ago

    I've had their Home Insurance since they started up and grabbed their car insurance a couple years ago. Competitive price, excellent customer service, no notes.

drnick1 2 days ago

> automatically tracking FSD miles versus manual miles through direct Tesla integration.

No thanks. I unplugged the cellular modem in my car precisely because I can't stand the idea that the manufacturer/dealer/insurance company or other unauthorized third parties could have access to my location and driving habits.

I also generally avoid dealers like the plague and only trust the kind of shops where the guy who answers the phone is the guy doing the work.

  • iknowstuff a day ago

    And yet you have a phone on you, probably using its navigation too. You’re totally right so much safer to trust Google/Apple with your location and driving habits

einpoklum 2 days ago

Now all that's missing is a self-insuring car and we're set.

cs702 2 days ago

TL;DR: 50% insurance discount for Tesla vehicles driven by Tesla FSD.

On the surface, this looks like an endorsement of Tesla's claims about FSD safety.

  • recursive 2 days ago

    Assuming the non-discounted rates are market-competitive.

    • notahacker 2 days ago

      And that the sort of miles accrued when using FSD in Arizona aren't >50% less likely to result in a claim than the average mile driven regardless of who's driving