raincole 2 days ago

So what is going on here? The reason is definitely not that Apple couldn't even train a small local LLM to power Siri, right?

  • twodave 2 days ago

    Even with ChatGPT in play it’s not very good.

    • singularity2001 2 days ago

      ChatGPT does not help with the system integration it's just an afterthought.

      It could potentially help tremendously but for that they would need to understand the usefulness of LLMs and tool usage.

  • swyx 2 days ago

    "couldnt even" is a high bar. it is an unsolved problem to make small models (truly, no bullshit) perform at human intelligence level than to make large models do the same. the bar JG had to pass was a bit lower than that, but Apple's marketing team unfortunately overpromised.

cadamsdotcom a day ago

Even if you have all the money in the world, it's still crucial to put the right people in the right places.

theoldgreybeard 2 days ago

When is Tim Apple retiring? Put an engineer in charge so they can fix Apple's rotting software.

  • kulahan 2 days ago

    Apple have said 2026 they'll be focusing only on quality improvements for software, I believe.

aetherspawn 2 days ago

This new guy is from Microsoft, who have enshittified every product they own with AI, ads, zero privacy data exfiltration, cloud everything, no security framework whatsoever, and the like.

I hope they don’t do anything remotely like that at Apple.

I am completely okay with the Apple approach to date (privacy and late mover cost advantage over progress and burning money/raising prices).

At this point, their investment to ship a better Siri is nearly zero if they take an open source model and run it on the device. Did John really mishandle it, or did he realise this and decide not to burn $BILS of cash and play the long game instead?

  • bruckie 2 days ago

    He was at Microsoft for a few months, and Google for 16 years before that.

    I worked pretty closely with him and his team for a bit at Google, and he seemed like a great human being, in addition to being a great engineer. I wouldn't read too much into a few-month stint at Microsoft.

  • Izikiel43 2 days ago

    He is a researcher, so I would keep a bit of hope he is not the same as the regular business side of msft.

  • add-sub-mul-div 2 days ago

    I use Windows every day and see no AI anywhere. It's trivial to turn off (thankfully) and we wouldn't even hear about it if there wasn't an outrage industry around Microsoft.

    • aetherspawn 2 days ago

      Aside from all the 365 subscription prices turning into “+ Copilot” editions and silently going up in price like 20%, that you then have to access hidden flows to opt-out of, right?

      Perhaps you are not getting it rammed down your throat because you’re not a business user? On personal editions one area where AI has been a failure is taking over the search bar, but you’re right, you can disable it.

estimator7292 2 days ago

Imagine an alternate reality where companies can do things like create voice assistants without the absolute, unquestionable requirement to not only be profitable, but to have infinite compounding growth forever.

We'd have working voice assistants by now. We're held up by the incessant need to game "engagement" and seek rent.

In reality users just want a goddamn voice interface to their phone. Set a timer, remind me of x next time I'm at location y. Turn on the lights. Set home air conditioning to 72.

Simple, trivial bullshit that has absolutely no monetizable worth. Because it's not profitable enough it's not worth developing at all. I'm half convinced the only reason siri and google assistant even still exist is solely and exclusively because the "other guy" has it.

People argue innovation is impossible without capitalism. I argue innovation is impossible with capitalism. If your idea isn't profitable enough it's not worth any amount of investment regardless of how beneficial the idea might be.

  • singularity2001 2 days ago

    We'd have working voice assistants if it wasn't for Apple Monopoly banning all apps that are "competition to Siri" and "asking for too many permissions" because sandbox is not compatible with system integration.

    • the_mar a day ago

      look if you don't care about privacy, just buy a google phone

      • bigyabai 19 hours ago

        If Apple can't offer competitive APIs that maintain privacy, then I don't trust them to handle my data in the first place.

cmiles8 2 days ago

Siri (Apple) and Alexa (Amazon) both has massive wiffs on AI

lvl155 a day ago

No one dares to question Apple’s culture. Perhaps something is rotten inside. The same people who milked iPhone for 14 years. But they got Vision Pro a full year after Meta proved that’s a dead end. What a joke of corporate leadership.

mannyv 2 days ago

IMO the problem is he was going for "real AI" instead of "fake it until you make it" AI.

Then LLMs came and it still wasn't "real enough."

  • paxys 2 days ago

    Where is this "real AI" you speak of?

  • reactordev 2 days ago

    But those stock options and benefits were excellent… /s

    Honestly he’s had one hell of a career. Even if Siri sucked.

    • dboreham 2 days ago

      Full disclosure: I've known jg since 1986. I have no insight into the Apple goings on, but the story that "he's the guy that made Siri suck" sounds very very unlikely to me.

      • natch a day ago

        He's not the guy who made it awesome, that much is known.

      • reactordev a day ago

        Yeah, not attributing it to him, just his lack of being able to do anything with it. Could have been Apple Politics. Could have been a number of things.

        Still. Idle hands, he should get back on that horse if he can. Go do more stuff.

bibimsz 2 days ago

i wonder if this is related to the new appletv and speakers being apparently delayed

jeffrallen a day ago

I worked with JG. He was a good guy. Got no idea what happened at Apple, but I have nothing but good feelings from when I knew him 25 years ago.

sodafountan a day ago

Wow, come to think of it, Siri failed; ChatGPT completely eclipsed the tool.

megablast 2 days ago

If they let you use siri to change settings it would be very useful. Instead I have to search fro hard to find options.

rvz 2 days ago

Who? Maybe that was the problem.

What did he even do for Apple's AI strategy for 7 years?

Apple is still far behind in doing anything useful with AI.

  • dekhn 2 days ago

    He did nothing, or net-negative. Same as Google; it was totally unclear how this guy got promoted to the level of power he had based on his history.

    [Now I remember- he came in with the metaweb acquisition at a time when search was going all-in on knowledge graphs and semantics]

unsupp0rted 18 hours ago

"Hey Siri, stop playback"

...

...

...

Siri disappears and song continues playing

...

"Hey Siri, stop playback"

Songs stops playing.

Mistletoe a day ago

Why does the title of this post keep changing? I think this is at least the third iteration of it now. I don't understand the HN obsession with titles. Now half the comments don't even make sense or people wonder why they keep talking about Siri.

urlmanipulator a day ago

Siri is doomed by Apple global strategy. Even if they really make it to work, it would work only in a few selected languages which is a parody of AI these days. They are living in 90s when only a few languages were important